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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 53

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of the point of convergence podcast as

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always i am your host exo academian

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it was at this time last year that the

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inaugural edition of this podcast was

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launched

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in that very first edition i discussed

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some of the broad brush topics i plan to

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cover in the coming weeks and months

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i didn't know exactly what direction the

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podcast would take but i had a strong

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sense that it would attempt to weave

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together topics that are often taken as

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distinct and disconnected

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topics such as alien beings and the ufo

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phenomenon

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psi phenomena such as psychokinesis

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telepathy and clairvoyance and the

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mystery of life and death

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revealed with growing clarity through

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phenomena such as out-of-body

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experiences and even more so near-death

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experiences

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i also understood that central to our

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inquiry would be the underlying role

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that consciousness seems to play in

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connecting each of these subjects which

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are often collectively referred to as

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the contact modalities almost like

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spokes in a wheel

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over time it has become increasingly

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clear that as i recently heard it put

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it's not so much that we possess

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consciousness as that we on the most

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fundamental of levels are consciousness

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somehow despite the temporary sense of

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separation we often experience in this

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particular earthly iteration

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we are actually part of capital c

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consciousness which as quantum physicist

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aaron schroedinger put it

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quote consciousness is a singular of

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which the plural is unknown

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there is only one thing and that which

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seems to be a plurality is merely a

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series of different aspects of this one

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thing produced by a deception the indian

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maya as in a gallery of mirrors unquote

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while the ufo phenomenon which has been

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our most central topic of inquiry might

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at first seem like it doesn't belong in

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such a conversation

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i think it's clear based on the various

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cases of contact with non-human

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intelligence that we've covered over the

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last year

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that nothing could be further from the

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truth

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indeed the connection between ufos and

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aliens with side phenomena and

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out-of-body and near-death experiences

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is not even secondary and subtle but

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often quite immediate and direct

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in fact we've come across cases where

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deceased relatives show up in the very

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same encounters where people meet and

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interact with apparently alien beings

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we also know that the altered state of

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consciousness that experiencers of the

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ufo phenomenon frequently describe

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involve striking overlap with elements

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of out-of-body and near-death

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experiences

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now speaking of those various

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experiences of contact with apparently

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non-human alien entities

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it has been informative to see how

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different people have described

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different kinds of experiences

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in cases we've covered over the last

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year

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while there are too many striking

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similarities to count there have also

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been some striking differences perhaps

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suggesting as i've postulated for some

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time now that we're dealing with

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different elements within one totality

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we conveniently call the ufo phenomenon

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now that we've reached the one year mark

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of this podcast while also reaching the

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end of this calendar year

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now seems like an apt time for a

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retrospective of sorts

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looking back to compare and contrast the

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various elements of these otherworldly

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anomalous experiences

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over the last 365 days or so we've

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covered nine specific cases of contact

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with alien intelligence

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and now we'll seek to take an

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overarching view of those cases

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considering in what ways they're similar

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as well as distinct and in what ways

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they did or didn't somehow touch on the

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other contact modalities we discussed

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earlier

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in this the 53rd episode of the point of

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convergence podcast

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[Music]

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all right as i mentioned in today's

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episode we'll be comparing and

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contrasting several different cases that

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we specifically covered over various

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podcast episodes over the last year and

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there are several key points we want to

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touch on for each of those cases

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we want to make note of the type of

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entities encountered we want to make

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note of whether or not it was a positive

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negative or neutral experience according

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to this experiencer

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we also want to make note of the key

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messages that these apparently alien

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others communicated to this person

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all right so let's jump into our first

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case these are specifically podcast

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episodes dedicated to a specific case a

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specific encounter with aliens by a

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human being

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the first episode we're going to look

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back on is episode number eight which

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was titled the visitors in hiding

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considering motivations behind the

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stealthiness of ufo slash uap

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intelligence

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now specifically in terms of the cases

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we referred to

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we talked about susie hansen's case and

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her book the dual soul connection

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now one of the reasons why i brought up

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suzy hansen's case in this particular

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episode is because we were talking about

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disclosure and how that may or may not

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be handled by human civilization which

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as i pointed out many times

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is comprised of many different types of

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developmental levels and cultures around

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the world so it's not a simple answer

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this is what suzy hansen had to say

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about disclosure quote many of us have

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considered the instant and potentially

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devastating ramifications to our

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civilization if disclosure takes place

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before we are ready it makes sense that

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when the time of global disclosure comes

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in whatever way it may manifest a

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structure will be needed to deal with

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those ramifications

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since it will be such a major global

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shift that not everyone or every

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societal group or organization will be

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able to make that leap easily

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unquote

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now in terms of the points that we said

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we were going to reflect on for each

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case in susie hansen's case she

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encountered many different types but the

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most common one was the gray and she had

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a specific encounter with one gray alien

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that she realized she knew from even

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childhood and before that even between

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lifetimes so what was so fascinating

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about susie hansen's case and it's one

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of my favorites

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is that she reflects on so much

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experience with these others again going

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back before this lifetime even

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and as i mentioned in the title she

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touches on the fact that she comes to

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recognize that she has a dual soul kind

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of identity and when she's in the realm

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of these others not just on board their

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craft but in that kind of altered state

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of consciousness that she

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embodies when she's with them she comes

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to recognize that she's more than just

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human that when she's in her human

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modality it's not the totality of who

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she is and again there are other people

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who have acknowledged this who have

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recognized this when it comes to their

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experience with these others but susie

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hansen's case is particularly

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interesting and informative because she

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has so much recall about what's been

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happening between her and these others

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now in terms of whether her experience

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is positive negative or neutral we would

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definitely say this is a case of a

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positive encounter with these others

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even though even for susie hansen her

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initial encounter where she was abducted

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with a friend a roommate

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via their car right up into an alien

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craft was completely terrifying but when

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she was in the presence of these others

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suddenly memory came back of knowing

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these others and it completely changed

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her perspective

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in terms of how she's been changed she

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sees herself as part of a process as a

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volunteer who's here to help facilitate

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an ongoing interaction with these others

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and that one day when full disclosure

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really happens she will serve as a

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bridge between them and us

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even more so because she has this dual

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soul human slash gray identity

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all right let's move on to our next

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episode where we discussed a specific

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case of someone who had an interaction

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with alien beings

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now this particular one we're going to

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discuss next is very unique in fact it's

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one of the most unique cases in the

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history of the world i would say and i

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know that's saying a lot

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here i'm referring to episode 21 which

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was titled the psycho kineticon the

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compelling case of ted owens claimed

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conduit for alien powers

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now jeffrey mishlov actually researched

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this case and followed ted owens around

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and did his very best michelle i'm

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speaking of to document what ted owens

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did his exploits and what's fascinating

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and astounding is that ted owens would

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make these predictions of what he was

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going to do these various psychokinetic

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activities he was going to engage in in

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the world for instance manifesting a

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hurricane or making ufos appear in the

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sky he would say ahead of time that he

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was going to do this and then many many

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times most of the time in fact he would

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come through that mishlov would be able

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to actually document these things and

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show that somehow ted owens was able to

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predict that he was going to do these

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things and then he could do them even

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feats where he controlled huge elements

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of nature

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now the reason why this is a ufo case

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and ufo phenomenon case is because ted

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owens claimed that there were two

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specific alien entities that he was in

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contact with and they had chosen him

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to basically manifest these powers in

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the world as a sort of test bed to see

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if human beings were ready for

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disclosure

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now what's interesting with ted owens is

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that it's a bit of a cautionary tale

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because in some ways he didn't have the

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greatest level of consciousness he was a

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somewhat self-conscious person and that

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he got very very angry and upset

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when people didn't take him seriously

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but of course this was back in the 1970s

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when most people in american culture

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didn't take psi phenomena seriously they

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didn't take ufos very seriously either

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in many arenas especially in academia

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for instance so ted owens would take

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this personally and then sometimes

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either deliberately or somewhat

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indirectly he would manifest phenomena

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that would end up hurting people for

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instance there's one specific case where

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a plane crashed and it seems to be

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00:10:47,030 --> 00:10:46,160
connected to something ted owens was

283
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:47,040
doing

284
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if you'd like to know more about that i

285
00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:50,079
would suggest you go back and listen to

286
00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:52,800
this episode number 21.

287
00:10:56,470 --> 00:10:54,399
now let's touch on each of our key

288
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:56,480
points we were going to make note of

289
00:11:00,630 --> 00:10:58,800
types of entities involved well these

290
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:00,640
are not your specific reptilians or

291
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:03,120
graves these were a specific type unique

292
00:11:07,829 --> 00:11:05,360
to ted owens in some ways and in his

293
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:07,839
case he never actually had face-to-face

294
00:11:12,790 --> 00:11:10,720
direct contact with these aliens but

295
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:12,800
rather was in ongoing telepathic

296
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:15,120
communication with them and he was told

297
00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:17,360
that they were on board a spacecraft

298
00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:19,680
that was basically orbiting the earth in

299
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:21,680
cloaked fashion

300
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:24,480
in terms of positive negative or neutral

301
00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:26,160
from ted owens point of view he had a

302
00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:28,160
very positive experience with these

303
00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:30,480
alien others and he saw himself in some

304
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:32,640
ways as the chosen one almost like a

305
00:11:36,069 --> 00:11:34,160
biblical figure

306
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:36,079
of course looking from the outside we

307
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:37,519
might question whether this was a

308
00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:39,839
positive experience perhaps neutral

309
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:42,000
would be a better word to use because

310
00:11:46,949 --> 00:11:44,160
there was both positive and negative

311
00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:46,959
phenomena that arose from this case

312
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:49,360
but according to our strictest criteria

313
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,160
from ted owens perspective he saw these

314
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:54,480
interactions as positive and his

315
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:56,320
relationship with these others these

316
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:59,839
aliens as positive

317
00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:01,519
all right let's move on to the next

318
00:12:07,269 --> 00:12:03,920
podcast episode that specifically

319
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:07,279
discussed one encounter between a human

320
00:12:11,590 --> 00:12:09,440
or humans and these others these

321
00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:11,600
apparent alien others

322
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:14,720
here we move to episode number 22 which

323
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:17,600
was titled ufos and the atomic dawn a

324
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:19,760
discussion of valet and harris's new

325
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:23,120
book trinity the best kept secret

326
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:26,480
now this is a phenomenal case and both

327
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:29,200
jacques vallee and paola harris

328
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:31,920
researched this specific historic case

329
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:35,040
it was about a 1945 crash we'll say that

330
00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:36,320
in quotes

331
00:12:42,069 --> 00:12:39,040
where a ufo apparently struck a tower

332
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:42,079
and then crashed into the desert now two

333
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:44,480
young boys stumbled across this crash

334
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:47,120
and then were able to catch sight of

335
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:50,399
beings inside this crashed supposed

336
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:52,000
spacecraft

337
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:53,600
now what's fascinating about this

338
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:55,519
particular case from a historical point

339
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:57,920
of view is that some have questioned

340
00:13:01,670 --> 00:12:59,760
whether or not it was actually a crash

341
00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:01,680
that's why i used that term in quotes

342
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:02,720
earlier

343
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:05,600
because again people wonder if an alien

344
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:07,760
species is able to travel across the

345
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:09,680
vast expanse of space

346
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:11,440
are they really going to crash into a

347
00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:14,639
tower in a small desert town

348
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:16,800
it seems like a lot to swallow

349
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:19,519
now from paola harris's and chocolates

350
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:21,920
point of view they think this may be a

351
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:25,120
coded message that because these crashes

352
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:27,680
this one as well as roswell later on

353
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:30,639
happen so close to the dawn of the

354
00:13:35,509 --> 00:13:33,200
atomic age for human beings they wonder

355
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:35,519
if actually these weren't really crashes

356
00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:37,519
but ways that these others were trying

357
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:39,360
to get our attention about the very

358
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:42,320
dangerous precipice we were approaching

359
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:45,360
with the advent of nuclear technology

360
00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:47,680
atomic weapons specifically

361
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:50,560
and certainly one cannot overlook how

362
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,120
closely this event was linked to that

363
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:55,519
very first atomic bomb test it was

364
00:13:59,910 --> 00:13:57,839
within weeks it really is astounding

365
00:14:01,350 --> 00:13:59,920
when you think about the historical

366
00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:01,360
timeline

367
00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:03,680
now this is what valet and harris had to

368
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:06,079
say when they reflected on this specific

369
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:07,120
event

370
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,760
quote we believe the phenomenon is not

371
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:11,760
trying to teach us physics or advanced

372
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:13,920
propulsion although most researchers

373
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,480
will keep trying to extract such data

374
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:18,720
or turn it into new weapons

375
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:20,880
instead we believe it is trying to teach

376
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:23,760
us to transcend our own humanity or

377
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:26,240
perish in a toxic mental cloud of our

378
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:28,959
own making when our civilization reaches

379
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:32,320
its point of singularity unquote

380
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:34,800
so let's review our compare and contrast

381
00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:37,279
points pertaining to this case

382
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:39,600
was it a positive negative or neutral

383
00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:42,959
experience for these boys that saw this

384
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:44,560
well that partly depends on how you look

385
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:46,240
at it they were very young when they

386
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:47,920
first experienced it one of the children

387
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:49,760
was quite frightened and wanted to go

388
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:50,560
home

389
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:52,079
but it certainly wasn't a negative

390
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:54,160
experience overall

391
00:14:58,790 --> 00:14:55,839
and what's interesting about this case

392
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:58,800
as valet and harris point out it may be

393
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:01,600
more about a meta message for all of

394
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:03,760
humankind rather than one specifically

395
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:05,680
for these two young boys

396
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:07,120
but again from their point of view

397
00:15:11,509 --> 00:15:08,800
perhaps you would say it was a neutral

398
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:11,519
experience in terms of key messages

399
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:14,720
there were no direct explicit messages

400
00:15:19,829 --> 00:15:17,519
but again as valee and harris conclude

401
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:19,839
perhaps there are implicit messages

402
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:21,839
specifically a warning about nuclear

403
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:23,760
weapons technology

404
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:25,360
all right let's move on to our next

405
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:27,600
episode that discussed a specific

406
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:30,240
encounter with alien beings

407
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:31,680
now we're going to move to episode

408
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:34,800
number 23 which was titled a spectacle

409
00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:37,680
in the sky the events at fatima and the

410
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:39,600
link between religion and the ufo

411
00:15:43,189 --> 00:15:40,959
phenomenon

412
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:43,199
now again just like in our previous case

413
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:45,839
with the book trinity here jacques valet

414
00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:47,920
is once again front and center

415
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:50,320
and villain talks about the overlap

416
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:53,199
between religion and the ufo phenomenon

417
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:56,000
this is what valet has to say quote

418
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:58,560
many descriptions of ufo phenomena force

419
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:01,040
us to deal simultaneously with two

420
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:03,839
categories we always attempt to separate

421
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:06,240
the physical or technical and the

422
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:08,639
spiritual or divine

423
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:10,880
numerous witnesses in their statements

424
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,519
after a close encounter claim bluntly

425
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,360
that the experience of the phenomenon

426
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:17,519
has a religious meaning to them

427
00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:20,160
perhaps it does perhaps we need not only

428
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:22,480
a scientific breakthrough here but a

429
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:24,959
consciousness breakthrough as well

430
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:27,600
a global historical grasp of the beliefs

431
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,320
materialistic as well as idealistic

432
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:32,560
among which we have been groping for ten

433
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:34,160
thousand years

434
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:36,800
the famous apparitions at fatima offer a

435
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:38,800
historical example of the religious

436
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:41,440
dimension of ufo encounters

437
00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:43,839
the case is a celebrated one yet i am

438
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:45,920
prepared to wager that few americans

439
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:47,839
know the full story of what happened in

440
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:49,360
1917

441
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:51,839
near the small portuguese town

442
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:53,920
i suspect that even fewer realized that

443
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:56,160
the entire sequence of observations of

444
00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:58,959
an entity thought to be the virgin mary

445
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:01,600
had begun two years previously in a

446
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,319
fairly classical sequence of ufo

447
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:06,559
sightings unquote

448
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:08,240
and that's what's fascinating about this

449
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:10,079
case because it comes down so much to

450
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:11,520
interpretation

451
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:13,919
the catholic church interpreted this as

452
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:16,880
a vision a manifestation of mary the

453
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:19,600
virgin mary and of course much of the

454
00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:21,760
population in that area especially at

455
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:22,880
that time

456
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:24,959
around the turn of the century was

457
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:26,880
largely catholic

458
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:28,799
so for those people they're going to

459
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,440
right away assume this is a vision of

460
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:33,200
mary something to do with their

461
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:35,039
religious beliefs

462
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:37,280
but again when you compare the actual

463
00:17:43,110 --> 00:17:39,919
phenomena that manifested there is much

464
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:43,120
parallel with ufo encounters

465
00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:45,520
and as valet explicitly states there

466
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:48,000
were actually classical ufo sightings

467
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,400
that happened leading up to this event

468
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:52,080
of course as we've touched on many times

469
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:54,400
in this podcast this of course begs the

470
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:56,960
question could it be that our historical

471
00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:00,080
monotheistic religions are based on

472
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,320
encounters that historic human beings

473
00:18:06,310 --> 00:18:04,880
had with these others but just in the

474
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:06,320
distant past

475
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:08,400
it's certainly a possibility

476
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:10,080
now let's touch on our compare and

477
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:11,679
contrast points

478
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:14,160
types of entities but what's fascinating

479
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:15,760
about this case and this is of course

480
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:18,000
something we find very commonly with the

481
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:20,720
ufo phenomenon is different people saw

482
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:22,080
different things

483
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:23,679
there were humanoid figures that were

484
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:25,440
noticed but you have to remember that

485
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:27,760
people's interpretation also gets mixed

486
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:29,679
into the experience and so you're left

487
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:31,760
wondering how much did they really see

488
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:33,760
what they think they saw versus how much

489
00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:36,240
was it an interpretation that their mind

490
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:38,320
formulated based on religious

491
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:42,000
interpretation and religious expectation

492
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:44,320
all right now moving to our compare and

493
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:47,360
contrast points first was the experience

494
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,679
positive negative or neutral

495
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:51,600
well of course because most of these

496
00:18:56,789 --> 00:18:53,919
people interpreted this as a religious

497
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,799
experience it was seen as positive

498
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:58,320
even though there were some stern

499
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:01,120
warnings for humanity to turn from its

500
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:04,320
sinning ways lest they anger god the

501
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:06,320
overarching sense was this was god

502
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:09,280
trying to turn humankind around so that

503
00:19:14,470 --> 00:19:12,400
we would have a more beneficial outcome

504
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:14,480
now again in this part of the case it

505
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:16,559
certainly begs the question because it's

506
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:18,799
unclear whether or not these specific

507
00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:20,960
messages were beamed into the minds so

508
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,080
to speak telepathically by these others

509
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:26,320
or if some kind of message came through

510
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:28,960
and it was interpreted as a message from

511
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:31,520
god that fit with people's pre-existing

512
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:33,840
expectations for what a message from god

513
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:36,720
or from an angel would sound like it's

514
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:38,720
difficult to know especially when the

515
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:40,640
people involved perhaps didn't have the

516
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:42,320
self-awareness to do that kind of

517
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:43,679
self-critique

518
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:45,919
again the initial people that saw this

519
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:48,160
were young children and we know it's

520
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:50,000
already a lot to expect human beings

521
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:52,480
that are adults to be self-aware enough

522
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,720
to critique their own expectations to

523
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:56,880
see beyond that to try and parse out

524
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:58,799
their expectation from the experience

525
00:20:02,230 --> 00:20:00,720
itself but when young children are

526
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:02,240
involved and you're in a largely

527
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:04,640
catholic area amongst children who come

528
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,640
from families that see everything from a

529
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:08,960
catholic point of view world view then

530
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:11,039
it's even more difficult

531
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:12,480
but speaking of comparing and

532
00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:14,720
contrasting when we think about this

533
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:17,039
case at fatima as well as the trinity

534
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:18,880
case we just discussed

535
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:21,280
in both situations you could argue that

536
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:23,520
a message is being delivered but it's

537
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:25,919
being delivered for all of humankind and

538
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:27,440
that the people who experience the

539
00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:31,120
actual entities are somewhat superfluous

540
00:20:35,909 --> 00:20:33,039
it's how the experience is interpreted

541
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:35,919
by the larger whole that really matters

542
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:38,000
and as valet and others have postulated

543
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:40,480
perhaps these others this overarching

544
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:42,880
intelligence changes the manifestation

545
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:45,280
over time to match with our current

546
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:49,120
cultural expectations so in 1917 in a

547
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:51,039
small town in portugal

548
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:54,240
it manifests like a vision of mary or at

549
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:56,080
least it will be interpreted that way

550
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:58,559
whereas a few decades on in the desert

551
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:00,640
of the united states at the dawn of the

552
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:03,919
atomic era a spacecraft is involved and

553
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:06,159
specifically alien-looking beings are

554
00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:08,400
spotted the perhaps this overarching

555
00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:10,159
intelligence knows that this is what

556
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,400
will be seen and they have some sense of

557
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:14,880
what the interpretation will be and how

558
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:17,520
the overarching society interprets that

559
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:19,840
experience matters more than anything

560
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:20,880
else

561
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:22,640
it's certainly worth considering from my

562
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:24,480
point of view and you could argue that

563
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:27,280
this is an example of the lay's control

564
00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:29,600
system which of course we discussed way

565
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:32,480
back in episode number seven

566
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:33,919
all right let's move on to the next

567
00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:35,760
podcast episode that discussed a

568
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:39,200
specific alien contact experience

569
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:41,840
here we're moving to episode number 30

570
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:44,559
which was titled a confession of contact

571
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:47,039
the case of robert hastings nuts and

572
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,159
bolts researcher turned abductee

573
00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:52,320
and as is hinted at in the title there

574
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:54,799
this is a truly fascinating case because

575
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:58,240
robert hastings was a long time ufo

576
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:00,559
researcher a nuts and bolts kind of

577
00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:02,799
individual that those who want to look

578
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:05,200
at just the craft themselves looked up

579
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:07,840
to in other words he was well known and

580
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:10,400
highly respected amongst the nuts and

581
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:12,960
bolts crowd specifically

582
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:15,280
hastings didn't really touch on aspects

583
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:18,159
such as hybrids or abductions or the

584
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,480
nature of the beings themselves he was

585
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:22,320
more interested in the craft and

586
00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:24,240
specifically how the craft would show up

587
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:26,480
at nuclear facilities nuclear weapons

588
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:28,880
facilities specifically he has probably

589
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:31,200
documented this as much if not more than

590
00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:34,000
anyone else in history

591
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:35,919
but what's fascinating about this book

592
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:39,039
which came decades after his well-known

593
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:41,840
research into ufos and again ufos

594
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:43,919
showing up at nuclear facilities

595
00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:46,000
robert hastings published this book

596
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:48,400
which was a confession of sorts coming

597
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:50,240
clean about the fact that he had had

598
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,559
ongoing lifetime

599
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:54,799
memories of interaction with these

600
00:23:01,830 --> 00:22:58,240
beings and that he himself was an alien

601
00:23:03,830 --> 00:23:01,840
abductee shocking to the ufo world

602
00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:03,840
quoting from his book quote

603
00:23:08,149 --> 00:23:06,080
perhaps not surprisingly shortly after

604
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:08,159
the camping trip incident i began to

605
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:10,720
wonder about certain striking thoughts i

606
00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:12,960
will call them memories that i had had

607
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:14,559
as an adolescent

608
00:23:18,789 --> 00:23:16,720
involving my being in a cornfield with

609
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:18,799
unidentified individuals who

610
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:20,960
subsequently led me into a house where i

611
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:23,760
saw my entire family seated around a

612
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:26,320
table motionless and blankly staring

613
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:27,760
into space

614
00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:29,440
although i hadn't thought about those

615
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:32,000
vivid mental impressions for years they

616
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:34,480
now took on a new significance

617
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:36,640
after all certain aspects of the earlier

618
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:39,280
flashbacks were very similar to recent

619
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:40,480
events

620
00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:42,240
memories of being taken away from my

621
00:23:46,390 --> 00:23:44,559
family by mysterious figures who had

622
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:46,400
messed with me in some manner in a

623
00:23:52,149 --> 00:23:48,880
cornfield before returning me to my

624
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:52,159
temporarily zombie-like kinfolk

625
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:53,840
to me all of these apparent

626
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:55,840
recollections seem to hint that an

627
00:24:00,950 --> 00:23:58,080
experience similar to the camping trip

628
00:24:02,230 --> 00:24:00,960
event may have occurred much earlier in

629
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:02,240
my life

630
00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:03,360
unquote

631
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:05,039
and here specifically hastings is

632
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:07,360
talking about a camping trip where he

633
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:09,840
realizes he was abducted and how this

634
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:11,919
sort of opened the door to a flood of

635
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:13,919
memories going well back into his

636
00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:15,520
childhood

637
00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:17,760
now of course as many of us experience

638
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:19,279
when we reflect on these kinds of

639
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:20,720
experiences

640
00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:22,880
hastings couldn't help but wonder was

641
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:25,120
this responsible for his drivenness for

642
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:27,440
his drive to

643
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:29,039
research and learn more about this

644
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:32,080
phenomenon and to make it public news as

645
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:34,320
well because again he spent decades

646
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,320
traveling around largely university

647
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:38,480
campuses trying to spread the message

648
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:41,279
about what he was finding even before he

649
00:24:44,830 --> 00:24:43,360
came to a realization that he was a

650
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:44,840
alien

651
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:46,960
abductee quoting from his book one more

652
00:24:52,149 --> 00:24:49,200
time quote but the question i have

653
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,159
always asked myself is why why have i

654
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:54,480
been driven year after year to pursue

655
00:24:59,909 --> 00:24:57,039
this subject with such diligence and

656
00:25:02,390 --> 00:24:59,919
passion unquote now touching on our

657
00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:02,400
compare and contrast points types of

658
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:05,360
entities well interestingly hastings

659
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:07,360
doesn't really remember seeing these

660
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:09,919
entities specifically directly very

661
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:11,440
often if at all

662
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:13,520
he knows he has vague memories of them

663
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:15,520
and he remembers seeing kind of small

664
00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:17,279
figures in a cornfield for instance like

665
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:18,960
we just talked about

666
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:20,640
but he doesn't have very specific

667
00:25:25,029 --> 00:25:22,159
memories of what they look like what

668
00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:25,039
their facial features were like etc

669
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:27,440
now was the experience positive negative

670
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:29,039
or neutral

671
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:31,279
well this is complicated as is often the

672
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:33,600
case for most experiencers

673
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:35,440
even those who come to have a positive

674
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:38,159
experience we should point out begin as

675
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:40,720
a negative experience because again due

676
00:25:45,510 --> 00:25:43,840
to the ontological shock which is an

677
00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:45,520
expression that john mack coined of

678
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,400
course

679
00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:48,400
when you are experiencing beings that

680
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:50,720
are clearly not human and they suddenly

681
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:53,840
show up in ways that seem to bend our

682
00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:55,360
minds for instance when they just

683
00:25:59,830 --> 00:25:57,760
manifest in our rooms or they walk

684
00:26:02,630 --> 00:25:59,840
through walls this creates a degree of

685
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:02,640
shock that for most is interpreted as a

686
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:04,159
negative experience

687
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:06,400
so on the one hand hastings recognizes

688
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:08,080
that this has been a very disruptive

689
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:11,679
element in his life on the other hand he

690
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:14,000
does recognize that perhaps this is in

691
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:17,039
service of some greater good that he is

692
00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:19,679
a messenger on behalf of these others

693
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:21,600
even if unwittingly

694
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:24,320
and his role is to help in some larger

695
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:27,279
cause to turn humanity away from its use

696
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:29,840
of nuclear weapons for instance and he

697
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,320
has said in his book if that's the case

698
00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:34,320
then he has made peace with it he

699
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:36,080
believes it is worth it for the sake of

700
00:26:40,710 --> 00:26:38,400
that greater good

701
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:40,720
all right moving on to our next case of

702
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:42,400
alien interaction

703
00:26:48,149 --> 00:26:45,200
we now move to episode number 36 which

704
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:48,159
was titled transformed by contact

705
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:50,320
discussing whitley strieber's evolution

706
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:53,360
in transformation now of course by

707
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:55,039
transformation i'm referring both to

708
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:57,039
what happened to him the evolution of

709
00:27:01,029 --> 00:26:59,360
his experience and his interpretation

710
00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:01,039
but also the name of the book

711
00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:03,120
transformation which was the second book

712
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:05,760
in his communion trilogy i recommend the

713
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:07,679
entire trilogy and we will return to

714
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:09,679
whitley strippers books again

715
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,000
in a future podcast

716
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:14,320
now strieber has done much for human

717
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:16,799
beings in terms of pioneering what it

718
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:19,120
means to be an experiencer an alien

719
00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:20,480
abductee

720
00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:22,640
this is what streeper has to say about

721
00:27:26,789 --> 00:27:25,760
abduction in his book transformation

722
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:26,799
quote

723
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:29,360
abduction by non-human beings is part of

724
00:27:35,669 --> 00:27:32,159
much folklore whether the abductors are

725
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:35,679
called demons gods fairies or aliens the

726
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:37,760
experience is always devastating to its

727
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:39,360
victims

728
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:41,120
because we have refused to study the

729
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:43,760
subject we remain ignorant and the

730
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:46,080
experience is as hard now as it was a

731
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:48,880
thousand years ago i believe this can

732
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:49,840
change

733
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:52,000
like their earlier counterparts a few of

734
00:27:56,870 --> 00:27:54,080
the modern abductees have been driven

735
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:56,880
mad died or disappeared

736
00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:58,720
the great majority have simply borne

737
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,120
their difficult incomprehensible and

738
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:03,600
socially unacceptable memories in

739
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:04,799
silence

740
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:07,200
because it is so stressful an encounter

741
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:09,520
with the visitors can either be

742
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:12,080
destructive or it can be used as a

743
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:15,360
golden door to inner understanding

744
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:17,919
but it has a dark side too people who

745
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:19,919
cannot make use of their encounters are

746
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:21,360
often shattered

747
00:28:26,630 --> 00:28:23,520
at its best the experience shocks minds

748
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:26,640
to openness it creates in its victims a

749
00:28:32,789 --> 00:28:29,039
hunger to develop and enrich their

750
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:32,799
spirits unquote now as is usually the

751
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:35,600
case there in his typical style strieber

752
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:37,840
is very articulate in his description of

753
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:40,320
what the experience is like he points

754
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:42,240
out that it is mind-bending to the

755
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:44,640
extreme it takes someone's world view

756
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:47,279
and stretches it beyond comprehension to

757
00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:49,840
the point of snapping altogether and at

758
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:52,240
that point the person themselves gets to

759
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:54,640
a point where they either snap or they

760
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:57,520
evolve and develop a new world view with

761
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:00,480
a much deeper broader capacity a much

762
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:02,640
deeper broader conception of what

763
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:04,960
reality actually is

764
00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:07,120
some manage to make this transition and

765
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:08,880
some don't that's strieber's point of

766
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:09,760
view

767
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:11,360
what i find interesting is that when you

768
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:13,760
look at strieber's books they begin more

769
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:16,159
with the shock and awe aspect

770
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:18,080
the complete sense of overwhelm for

771
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:20,240
instance in his book communion but as

772
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:22,240
time goes on he makes more and more

773
00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:24,480
peace with the entire experience and

774
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:27,279
recognizes like hastings that it perhaps

775
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:29,360
serves some purpose and that the

776
00:29:33,669 --> 00:29:31,600
mind-bending nature of the experiences

777
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:33,679
are somewhat part and parcel with the

778
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:35,919
experience of the other that these

779
00:29:41,110 --> 00:29:38,240
others are so different than us that it

780
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:41,120
can't help but be mind-bending and in

781
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:43,200
that sense he doesn't blame them he sees

782
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:45,520
it as part and parcel with the process

783
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:47,919
itself which i think is very well worth

784
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:49,440
considering

785
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:51,200
so getting back to our compare and

786
00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:54,080
contrast points types of entities again

787
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,679
strooper has encountered different ones

788
00:30:00,070 --> 00:29:57,760
but the grays are front and center and

789
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:00,080
of course the front cover of his first

790
00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:02,960
book communion is the quintessential

791
00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:04,960
face of the alien for our entire

792
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:06,559
civilization

793
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:08,960
positive negative or neutral experiences

794
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:11,279
well as i just said that's complicated

795
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:13,200
they began as being very negative they

796
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:14,960
were certainly disruptive

797
00:30:19,269 --> 00:30:17,520
but overall streeper has come to see it

798
00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:19,279
as a positive and spiritually

799
00:30:24,789 --> 00:30:22,240
transformative experience

800
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:24,799
all right moving on to our next case in

801
00:30:30,590 --> 00:30:28,240
episode number 38 titled a human alien

802
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:30,600
symbiosis the case of gym sparks and

803
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:32,720
multi-generational cycles of harvest and

804
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:33,760
healing

805
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:37,760
we had our next case of alien encounters

806
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,159
now much like whitley strieber for jim

807
00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:42,000
sparks the experience was extremely

808
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:44,320
disruptive it tore his life apart

809
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:46,240
basically it certainly ended his

810
00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:48,880
marriage but like streeper and others he

811
00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:50,720
came to make peace with the overall

812
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:52,960
experience and he came to understand

813
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:55,760
that these others were not here to harm

814
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,480
us but more in service of some kind of

815
00:31:03,509 --> 00:31:00,960
symbiotic arrangement which would be

816
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:03,519
beneficial to both sides towards the end

817
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:06,240
of his book he quotes them as saying

818
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:08,320
quote there are some things you need to

819
00:31:12,630 --> 00:31:10,399
understand yes it's true that we have

820
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:12,640
been in contact with your government and

821
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:14,880
heads of power it is also true that

822
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:16,559
agreements have been made and kept

823
00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:19,200
secret from your people it is also true

824
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:20,720
that in the past some of your people

825
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:23,039
have lost their lives or have been badly

826
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:25,279
hurt to protect this secret

827
00:31:29,029 --> 00:31:27,440
our hands had no part in this we

828
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:29,039
contacted your leaders because your

829
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:31,679
planet is in grave trouble your leaders

830
00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:33,120
said the vast majority of your

831
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:35,120
population wasn't ready for anything

832
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:37,840
like us yet so we made time agreements

833
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:39,760
with your leaders as to when your people

834
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:42,240
would be made aware of our presence this

835
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:43,840
part of the agreement has not at all

836
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:46,399
been kept it was also agreed that in the

837
00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:48,559
meantime steps would be taken to correct

838
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:50,720
the environmental condition of your

839
00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:53,440
planet with our advice and technology

840
00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:55,039
unquote

841
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:56,720
so here again we touch on a somewhat

842
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:59,039
controversial aspect of the literature

843
00:32:03,909 --> 00:32:01,360
behind the ufo phenomenon this is an

844
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:03,919
aspect that i myself am not sure about

845
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,080
it has to do with to what degree these

846
00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:08,240
others some of the aliens that are part

847
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:11,039
of the ufo phenomenon have made contact

848
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:13,120
official contact with various

849
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:14,559
governments around the world and

850
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:17,120
specifically the us government we talked

851
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:19,440
about this in last week's episode

852
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:21,440
i just have yet to see evidence that is

853
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:23,519
convincing either way

854
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,080
but nevertheless the overarching message

855
00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:28,080
is very similar here again we are very

856
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,159
familiar with this kind of message there

857
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:32,559
is an environmental concern amongst

858
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,159
these others of what we're doing to our

859
00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:36,240
planet and according to

860
00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:38,480
jim sparks experience with them anyway

861
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:40,240
and what he's recording here

862
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:42,159
they are willing to help us but it is

863
00:32:46,870 --> 00:32:44,240
the governments of the world that are

864
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:46,880
slow to act again i'm unclear on that

865
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,679
part but the overarching message is

866
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:51,840
similar to what we've heard elsewhere

867
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:53,840
so touching on our comparing contrast

868
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:56,480
points types of entities well this is

869
00:33:02,230 --> 00:32:59,279
interesting spark sees different ones

870
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:02,240
but towards the end they actually remove

871
00:33:06,149 --> 00:33:04,320
a kind of disguise in terms of what he

872
00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:06,159
thought they look like and finds that

873
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:08,480
they look more like reptilians and they

874
00:33:13,909 --> 00:33:10,720
tell him they used a different guise all

875
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:13,919
along so as to not overly alarm him so

876
00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:16,159
reptilian is their actual form or at

877
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:18,559
least that's what they told sparks now

878
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:20,480
getting to our compare and contrast

879
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:23,600
points positive negative or neutral

880
00:33:27,509 --> 00:33:25,600
once again we can't help but acknowledge

881
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:27,519
that it is complex

882
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:29,919
on the one hand eventually sparks has

883
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:31,840
more of a relational dynamic with these

884
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:34,559
others and sees the overarching purpose

885
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:37,679
as symbiotic not negative not malevolent

886
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:40,480
but it was very disruptive to his life

887
00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:43,919
experience his job his marriage etc all

888
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:45,760
fell apart he basically became an

889
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:47,600
alcoholic for years because of these

890
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:49,120
experiences

891
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:51,039
so even when people do end up with

892
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:52,960
positive overall

893
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,120
interpretations it's somewhat like the

894
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:57,200
phoenix from the flame that only by

895
00:34:02,789 --> 00:34:00,080
being destroyed can they then resurface

896
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:02,799
with a changed personality and a changed

897
00:34:05,909 --> 00:34:04,240
outlook

898
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:05,919
all right let's move on to the final

899
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:07,919
case that we're going to discuss and

900
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:10,399
this is from episode number 39 which was

901
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:13,359
titled the veil between worlds yossi

902
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:15,679
ronan's encounters with aliens and

903
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:18,480
experience of non-duality

904
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:20,399
now this is a fascinating case

905
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:23,520
of an israeli man who encountered aliens

906
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:25,599
while he was living in los angeles as a

907
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:26,800
young man

908
00:34:31,589 --> 00:34:28,879
specifically he first had an experience

909
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:31,599
with them while he was dreaming but then

910
00:34:37,589 --> 00:34:34,079
to his shock when he woke up they were

911
00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:37,599
also in his manifest 3d reality and like

912
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:39,280
everyone else we've discussed this was

913
00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:41,760
completely discombobulating for him it

914
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:44,159
was only by tearing apart his former

915
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:46,079
view that he was able to reassemble a

916
00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:48,639
new conception of reality

917
00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:51,200
but even then this took many years and

918
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:53,119
much introspection

919
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:55,599
including with the aid of hypnotic

920
00:34:58,630 --> 00:34:56,720
regression

921
00:35:01,030 --> 00:34:58,640
and speaking of that i'd like to quote

922
00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:01,040
from the book in a specific event where

923
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:03,520
he is under hypnotic regression and

924
00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:05,440
trying to deal with why it is that it is

925
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:07,280
so frightening to experience these

926
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:10,560
others in your manifest waking world

927
00:35:14,630 --> 00:35:12,640
when it's not nearly as disruptive when

928
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:14,640
you experience them in the dream world

929
00:35:19,349 --> 00:35:17,280
or the subtle realm and in this hypnotic

930
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:19,359
regression experience even though ronan

931
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:21,119
is feeling very overwhelmed and

932
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:22,400
frightened

933
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:24,480
his therapist encourages him to stay

934
00:35:28,310 --> 00:35:25,839
with the process

935
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:28,320
and in that process these others share a

936
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:30,640
perspective with ronin and this is what

937
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:32,720
they say quote

938
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:34,880
you are afraid because the contact we

939
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:36,720
have built with you now that you are

940
00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:39,359
awake and conscious face to face with us

941
00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:41,040
is difficult for you

942
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:43,119
it is easier for you to experience us

943
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:45,359
only through the inner consciousness the

944
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:47,839
part you call your soul when your body

945
00:35:52,069 --> 00:35:50,079
is asleep and unconscious

946
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:52,079
the unfamiliar awareness you have

947
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:54,320
between your body and soul this

948
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:56,320
experience is responsible for much of

949
00:36:01,589 --> 00:35:59,119
your body's paralysis since the soul is

950
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:01,599
not physical like your body it has no

951
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:03,520
lifelike movements in the way that your

952
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:06,400
body recognizes and exists with it

953
00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:08,160
your body does not understand this

954
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:10,560
experience of total stillness

955
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:12,560
when the soul becomes aware of you

956
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:15,520
through your body you feel paralysis

957
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:17,359
because your body does not know how to

958
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:20,000
contain it how to live and exist in this

959
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:21,280
stillness

960
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:23,119
in terms of the physical body which

961
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:25,920
exists only within specific boundaries

962
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:28,320
to be spiritual like a soul which has no

963
00:36:33,990 --> 00:36:31,280
boundaries time or of movement

964
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:34,000
it instinctively feels like a death

965
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:35,040
warning

966
00:36:38,790 --> 00:36:36,720
unquote

967
00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:38,800
now this is fascinating i think this is

968
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,640
a remarkable insight that ronin comes to

969
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,560
and again it speaks to the sheer

970
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:46,960
ontological shock we experience in the

971
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:49,359
presence of these others and it's not

972
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:51,520
often just because of the way they look

973
00:36:55,829 --> 00:36:52,960
the fact that they're clearly

974
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:55,839
intelligent but not human it's not just

975
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:58,000
that fight-or-flight response enough

976
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,720
based on their physical appearance it's

977
00:37:03,990 --> 00:37:02,640
also the way that some of them interact

978
00:37:06,550 --> 00:37:04,000
with us

979
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:06,560
very often experiences share the fact

980
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:09,839
that there is complete telepathic relay

981
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:12,880
between them and us in other words our

982
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:15,680
entire identity our entire history our

983
00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:19,200
deepest fears regrets shame etc is

984
00:37:22,870 --> 00:37:20,960
exposed to them

985
00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:22,880
of course as human beings we're not

986
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:24,800
accustomed to living like this we've

987
00:37:29,109 --> 00:37:27,119
built up a sheltered inner life that we

988
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:29,119
keep separate from the world separate

989
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:30,320
from others

990
00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:32,320
many of these others apparently do not

991
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:34,800
have this kind of experience and to be

992
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:37,359
clear it does go both ways ronin can

993
00:37:42,310 --> 00:37:39,839
also experience all of their interiority

994
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:42,320
so to speak as well that's why i've

995
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:45,200
coined the term total presence telepathy

996
00:37:49,910 --> 00:37:48,079
to describe the overwhelming sense of

997
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:49,920
telepathic communication that happens

998
00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:52,880
between us and these others it is not

999
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:54,880
just linear thoughts shared back and

1000
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:57,520
forth it is complete presence being

1001
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:00,640
available both ways and because this is

1002
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:03,119
so overwhelming to such an astounding

1003
00:38:09,190 --> 00:38:06,079
degree it can feel like death because

1004
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:09,200
the small eye our small ego that has

1005
00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:11,760
built up an identity in this iteration

1006
00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:14,320
as an earthly vessel is challenged to

1007
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:16,400
the extreme is overwhelmed to the

1008
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:19,520
extreme by this experience so much so

1009
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,960
that it can feel akin to death

1010
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:24,560
that's essentially what these others are

1011
00:38:29,109 --> 00:38:26,720
telling ronan and it's the realization

1012
00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:29,119
he ultimately comes to and again i think

1013
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:31,359
this is an astonishing but highly

1014
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:33,280
insightful perspective

1015
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:35,280
and in that sense coming to peace with

1016
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:37,280
these experiences coming to peace with

1017
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:40,240
being in communication with these others

1018
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,960
is as much about reshaping and building

1019
00:38:47,190 --> 00:38:44,880
from the ground up and experience of

1020
00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:47,200
ourselves as it is about learning to

1021
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:50,400
experience and understand and live with

1022
00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:52,000
them

1023
00:38:56,069 --> 00:38:54,400
and on that note we've come to the close

1024
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:56,079
of another edition of the point of

1025
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:58,320
convergence podcast if you'd like to

1026
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:00,640
support this podcast you can do so by

1027
00:39:05,829 --> 00:39:03,440
going to patreon.com

1028
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:05,839
exo academian and i highly appreciate

1029
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:08,320
those who have become patrons

1030
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:10,400
but until next time friends from deep

1031
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:12,240
within the blue ridge mountains of north